tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC January 20, 2010 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
that got going before one vote was counted. it is in full swing. fingers are pointing at the people who ran martha cokley's campaign. those massachusetts independents, think about it, have always voted democratic. in other words yesterday people who voted democratic their whole lives went republican and for a republican conservative. what is with this ideological shift? we begin with a stunning victory by republican scott brown up in massachusetts. we are joined by white house senior aid david axelrod. david, it is a big day in american politics. let's look at what the republicans are saying right now about what happened in massachusetts in that senate race yesterday. >> last night a shot was fired around this nation. a shot was fired saying, no more business as usual in washington, d.c. >> you've heard what the speaker said yesterday and what the majority leader said.
we are going to find some way to push this over the line. it is that kind of arrogance that has the american people about ready to pull their hair out and throw every democrat out of here. >> the election last night in massachusetts for senator-elect brown was much about an election that rejected arrogance. much like david in his fight against goliath. >> wow. they seem to have their plan down. it is arrogance. arrogance was defeated in massachusetts yesterday. your take on what you learned yesterday, david axelrod. >> what i learned chris, is what i learned to some degree in december 2008 and the two years i travelled with barack obama, middle class people, hard-working people are being squeezed in many different ways and they've seen their jobs disappear. they've seen their wages stagnant, expenses are growing, health care, by the way, has been growing exponentially.
and this is enormously aggravating when they look to washington, they look to wall street, they see special interest hegemony in this town. we are the person in charge. we are going to become the fulcrum of some that aggravation. >> martha cokley was for the public option no matter what. she was going to go all the way with it. very assertively saying the things i would think the president would generally support. she was a classic democratic candidate. why did she get walloped in a state voting for democrats for as long as i can remember for senate and house races. >> look, i'm not going to disparage general cokley.
scott brown ran a terrific campaign. he tapped into that zeitgeist i talked about, the sense on the part of every day people that they are not getting a fair shake. he spoke to it. so i think that has a lot to do with it. he ran a very good campaign. i think that democrats were a little late to get to -- to send up the flares in responding to that challenge. but there is no doubt that we have a lot of agitation out there and a lot of aggravation. i told the president a year ago when we heard the economic forecast from our economic advisers, you have great numbers, admire them now because a year from now they are not going be nearly as good. you can't govern in an economy like this when so many people are struggling. the person in charge bears some of that with you. we had to do some very difficult things to get this economy moving again.
the recovery package, stabilizing the banks, stabilizing the auto industry. none of that was popular but the president did it because the consequences of not doing would be a much larger catastrophe. you pay a political price. it is important for middle class people they have leverage against insurance companies. we pursued health insurance reform. the long, tedious process in washington underscored in people's minds some of their worse sensibilities about the town and that, i i think, was felt as well. so there are a lot of factors in here. we are obviously very cognizant of them. the most important thing we can do is move forward, fighting for people, fighting to create jobs, fighting to raise sallies, fighting to get people a fair shake in this economy. >> how do you shake this -- i know it may be local. a lot of this was local. they didn't like the party establishment.
they thought they had been around too long. a lot of that had nothing to do with the white house. when democrats get accused of being arrogant, being the insiders, it seems the democrats are dead. they have to own populism, we are for the little guy. how did the republican guy with a truck grab from you, they grabbed jack kennedy. he is riding around in that truck with jack kennedy's movies. how the hell did you let him steal your bacon. i'm sorry. it wasn't you. the democratic party. >> look, i agree with you. we were a little late to recognize the potency of his threat. he was a very good candidate and tapped into a lot of things. let's talk for a second what is going on in this town. it is fine for some folks in the republican party to stand up and say, you know, they're going to stand up for the little guy, but it really matters what you do. we're fighting, for example, to
put a fee on banks so we can get all the money back from the t.a.r.p. program the republican administration started to stabilize the bank system. we helped them in their time of need. they are doing well. they ought to give this money back. the republican party is lining up with the banks. we're fighting to rein in the worst excesses of the insurance industry that throws people off insurance when they get sick, deprives people with preexisting conditions of insurance, raising premiums, they have doubled in the last decade. they are standing with the insurance cain companies. they can talk the talk, but when it comes tyke to walk the walk they don't do it. i'm happy to have that contest next november and if the president chooses to run in 2012. >> what about health care? it seems to me you have fewer options. 59 senators now. there is a possible route to passing a big bill before you have to retreat and go
incrementally. one option might be, i heard of this and i will run it by you, i heard about it last night, optimistically, you get the house leadership to get 218 votes for the senate bill with the clear proviso, this issue will be revisited with a major reconciliation bill to address the concerns of the progressive democrats and others in the caucus. do it with two steps and walk away with a big win. is that still possible? >> well, chris, i'm not going to talk about the various possibilities because they are under discussion right now. obviously, members of congress are speaking among themselves and with their leaders about where they think they are. we're talking to them. here is what i believe, though. you have been around politics all your life. i think the worst possible outcome would be for us to walk away from this now. what exists right now is a caricature of this legislation. >> exactly.
>> people don't understand what is in the bill. we will get the downside of having supported this and none of the upside of the reality of what it is. if they pass this bill next november every democratic candidate who supported it or any republicans who come to their senses would be able to say i was the one who made sure people with preexisting conditions get covered. i was the one who gave seniors more prescription protection, i extended the life of medicare and capped out-of-pocket expenses. so there is a range of things that will become law. when the president signs this bill, not in four years, but immediately, we can campaign on. if we don't pass this bill it will live as a negative ka caricature in people's minds. >> here is my advice, it is free and maybe worth that. it seems this administration isser is sieved to be activist when it comes to government,
progressive if you will. the only question and that question will be the same in november. the voters know that. do you believe trying to do good things at the federal level. the only question to the voters is not whether you are progressive or effective. if you succeed or not. >> right. >> you might as well go for it. thank you, david axelrod. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming on "hardball." coming up, does scott brown's victory in massachusetts mean health care reform is dead or can the democrat come up with plan "b" to keep it alive. let's talk about it with howard dean, one of the guys who started this health care push years ago. you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc. this actually works. (announcer) only rogaine foam is shown to regrow hair in 85% of guys. i'll check it out and i'm like, nice. (announcer) rogain foam. stop losing. start gaining.
mccain may be facing a tough primary challenge on the right. palin announced she will campaign for texas governor ric perry, the guy talked about taking texas out of the union. he is in a tough primary fight as he should be against kay bailey hutchison. palin plans to stump for u.s. congresswoman michele bachma bachmann. like to see those two together. "hardball" returns after this. national car rental? that's my choice. because with national, i roll past the counter... and choose any car in the aisle.
welcome back to "hardball." does scott brown's victory in massachusetts mean health care reform is dead? house speaker nancy pelosi insisted today it would pass still. let's listen to the speaker. >> heeding the particular concerns of the voters of massachusetts last night, we heard. we will heed. we will move forward with their considerations in mind. but we will move forward for health care. >> okay. but republicans emboldened by
their massachusetts win are branding the democrats as arrogant for trying to push reform through. democrats from senator russ feingold to jim webb in virginia, to claire mccaskill in missouri are saying it is time to slow down, go incrementally. is there a way for health care reform? we have an expert here howard dean, former governor of vermont. how do you do it with 59 senators, not 60? >> i think we might do better. 60 didn't do us very well. >> pull the rabbit out of your hat. how do you do it. >> a couple of ways. one, you can put an incremental bill through if the house votes for the senate bill. i think that's not likely. i don't see a senate bill passing with 59 votes. unless you get so incremental you are not doing much. the other thing you can do is go through reconciliation which we should have done in the first
place. senator conrad indicated you might do that. >> you think you can get 50 democrats to vote for that ? >> we have had 51 since day one. you will lose ben nelson, landrieu. >> both nelsons? >> i think bill nelson -- >> would you have 51 after what happened yesterday? >> yesterday the problem was people wanted more. democracy for america did a poll. 18% of the people voting for scott brown voted for barack obama, of those 18% three out of five wanted a public option. of the obama voters we polled that stayed home, 80% wanted a public option. so this is -- the problem here -- >> there are two facts on the table right now. the democratic candidate was for the public option. very aggressive. martha coakley was for the public option. period. she said it right to the end. never broke from that. she took the position you are
abdicating now. the voters voted for the guy who was going to kill it. they had an option between the public option candidate and kill it. they voted kill it. >> they voted for change. >> governor, this is -- >> the banks. >> you are whistling past the graveyard. >> i don't think so. >> she ran for the public option. she got blown away. >> people who voted -- who are for the public option they wanted to send washington a message. they want real change. chris, they want real change. you know voters as well as i do. >> if i say i'm more progressive than the president, vote for me. that was martha coakley's position. the other guy says i'm voting to kill it. okay. he is calling himself mr. 41.
he signing his name scott brown 41. i will be the 41 guy to vote for the filibuster. >> a lot of people outside washington don't think that bill should pass because it is watered down. >> not martha coakley. >> you are being silly. you know very well what voters do. voters were sending a message to washington. we don't want business as usual. that is what they were sending the message. >> how do you know that? >> we polled. american research group. >> people who had to go into the booth had a choice between a public option candidate and a no. how do you explain that? >> i just did. we asked them overnight and we found out of the obama supporters who stayed home or voted for scott brown they overwhelmingly wanted to do more on health care not less. >> they were more progressive than the president. >> this is not a surprise in massachusetts.
>> they were more progressive than the president. >> that's correct. >> debt, taxes, arrogance of power, the democratic party in massachusetts, all those ishsz, where were the voters? >> the voters were upset. >> where were they on all those issues. >> they were upset with washington as usual, dealing with special interests, writing a bill that is great for the insurance industry, not doing much about the bankers. >> that is your position. >> that is not my position. that is the voters of massachusetts. >> the voters of massachusetts agree with you but voted republican? >> of course it makes sense. >> would you have voted for the republican? >> of course not. >> you say the voters are irrational. they vote for a conservative republican against health care to tell the country they want a progressive health care program. that is crazy. >> we know what they did. >> are voters crazy. >> chris, there is only one crazy person around here. i maim hold up a mirror.
>> voters vote right wing republican to express progressive values. >> scott brown did not campaign as a right wing republican. >> he said i will kill health care. he ran against taxes. he subscribed ed td to democra liberalism. he pulled back the clock and said i'm back there. he rode around in the truck and established himself as a populist against the big shots. >> right. >> and it worked. i'm just looking at the results. i'm not cheering them. you are not looking at them. you are saying no matter who won. suppose coakley had won you would have said it is is a victory for progressive democrats. >> i would say -- >> you said your side won. >> i have hardly said anything. you used up all the air time. >> why do you believe martha coakley's defeat means people want a progressive health care bill. >> they are sending a strong
message to washington, they want strong leadership, real change and don't want to accommodate the special interest. they think the democrats have accommodated the special interests, not just in health care but the banking industry and wall street and other areas as well. >> if you are scott brown and he is listening to this program he is learning what he ought to do is back a public option because people when they voted for him were secretly for the progressive position not for him. his position. are you saying he -- >> i am saying you are being silly. they are not saying that. >> should he vote for a nux the senate. >> you know he is not going to do that. let's bereal about this for a minute. the public option is dead no matter what happens. >> it would be in his political seventy interest to vote for the public option. wouldn't it be? you said the polling -- >> i said what i said. this is silly. >> you are being silly. you are saying no matter who wins an election your argument wins. >> i'm saying we need a health
care bill. >> let's get back to where we might agree. i tried this with axelrod. get the house democrats to tuck it in, take it, pass the senate bill, move on to a real reconciliation bill this spring which addresses the concerns of progressive and others in the democratic caucus. get that passed. use reconciliation with that. not to create a health care plan. you do that for this bill to fix the problems what is wrong with that approach? >> i don't think there is anything wrong with that approach depending on what the fix is. it will be hard to get the votes in the house because the progressives are concerned -- >> they would rather walk away with nothing? >> i don't know. you should ask them. >> how do you say i tried to do what i believed in but i blew it. isn't it better i got most of what i wanted, i'll try for more later. isn't that a better re-election campaign? >> most of the verdict is in massachusetts is we would rather have no bill than what weave
got. that is what the verdict in massachusetts. >> they voted for a guy who is going to vote no. >> that is right. >> it is a strange interpretation. >> the polls are what they are. and you are what you are. it is the 2,000 people we polled against you. >> this guy with a barn coat who said i'm going to vote to kill the bill won the people against the bill won. >> i think that is true. don't forget a lot of people who are against the bill obama's core base voted against martha coakley. >> martha coakley was with you and she lost. she was toldly with howard dean and she lost. >> she wasn't. i didn't follow the campaign. >> she votes exactly like you with the progressive position, the public option. the voters said no, thank you. you have more charm and charisma. perhaps you offering yourself in massachusetts could have done it. >> i would have been a carpet bagger. >> thank you, governor. >> when i was running we won our elections. >> governor howard dean,
candidate for the united states senate one of these days. >> i don't think so. >> are more republicans taking on democratic encumbents. are business guys with trucks going to run against incumbents are some of these guys in trouble? the head of recruitment nor the national republican campaign committee. you are watching "hardball" with kevin mccarthy, they is how they say it in massachusetts. back with "hardball." oh just return it. returning gifts is easier than ever with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. plus i can pick it up for free. perfect because we have to get that outta this house. c'mon, it's not that... gahh, oh yeah that's gotta go... priority mail flat rate shipping starts at $4.95 only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship and return.
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welcome back to "hardball." yesterday's victory was a big shot in the arm for republicans. what does this mean nor the midterms. ken mccarthy is head of recruitment for the national republican committee. how many scott browns do you got, congressman? >> we have quite a few already filed. >> how many trucks do you have? >> we are buying a whole new fleet. no. >> tell me what that means to
you the whole thing. >> what it means to me. there are three big messages. to me it means the system works, the political system works. you can be an underdog and come from a state where all ten congressional districts elected democrats and scott came across and en won barney frank's district. if you want to be a part of this system and change it for what they think would be better this is the time to run, this is the time to engage. >> do you have a sense the democratic senators are worried right now? you can smell which way -- tell which way winds are blowing. specter and blanch lincoln are scared. >> i heard it on the floor. i watched it this morning talking to different democratic members. they're nervous. some of them saw it coming. some of them are walking up to others saying you are right. others are saying where do we go
from here now. >> what do you make of the word arrogance. i don't know if it is a talking point put out by your party. i know massachusetts politics. democrats have been a little too elite, the best academic k credentials entitle you to the best jobs. this is the first time a democrat hasn't moved up when moving for a higher office in years. they automatically kick them upstairs from ag to senator. is it cultural, political, your party has been using that word. >> it is the combination. the policy that is happening in washington. but it is the arrogance and chicago style politics and way it is going forward. if you track the movement of senator-elect brown he started moving in the polls when the nebraska deal got cut. in florida, the medicare advantage deal. that is what the style started
coming up. the idea it was supposed to be transparent but wouldn't let the cameras in the room. americans like fairness in the process. >> let me tell you what i know from massachusetts. he began to move up when he went on the air with well done ads with the president kennedy, more of a centrist, a typical middle-of the-road democrat. he coming up for tax cuts. for him to run on john kennedy, doesn't that seem ironic for your party, to be running on the most popular president along with reagan in the last 50, 100 years, to be using jack kennedy to get elected as a republican? >> jack kennedy talked about tax cuts. i would argue maybe this party isn't where jack kennedy was then. he ran as an outsider.
she ran as part of the establishment. he was willing to campaign, go out to fenway, ask somebody for their vote, shake their hand and talk to them. he became a real person. we have to remember this is an anti-incumbent year. this is anti-washington. you don't want to be a part of washington. you want to be a part of the solution of america to fix the problems. >> who is your favorite red sox pitcher? >> well, curt schilling. >> okay. thank you very much. he ought to be at this point. he is doing the job for your party. thank you kevin mccarthy. scott brown's victory may be the sign of things to come in the midterms if republicans can win in massachusetts, to paraphrase frank sinatra, perhaps they can make it anywhere. our strategist on what this means for both parties or as they say in massachusetts, parties. who is in trouble after what happened yesterday. you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc.
a broad selloff on washington as the dollar hits a four-month high against the euro. troubles in greece the cause of that. dow jones industrials tumbling 122 points, the s&p 500 down 12, the nasdaq shedding 29 points. a number of factors boosting the dollar. china taking aggressive steps to curb bank lending, looking to tamp down fast growth and poke a few holes in the real estate and commodity bubble. investors dealing with a surprise drop in new housing starts, blaming it on the recent cold snap. economists saying the u.s. recovery moving at a better pace than europe. two companies posting better
than expected results after the closing bell. starbucks beading estimates on top and bottom line and full year outlook. ebay shares moving higher in after hours trading. that is it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." how many senate democrats should be worried by scott brown's victory? we bring in steve mcmahon and republican today harris. i'll just call you republican today harris. >> happy with that. >> harry reid in nevada, blanch lincoln in arkansas, arlen specter, evan bayh, who is in
trouble? who is your easiest ones to knock off? >> i think reid is in real trouble. specter is in real trouble. lincoln is in real trouble. when democrats start losing in places like massachusetts democrats start retiring in places like arkansas, nevada, other swing states. >> you expect people of this caliber to start quitting now rather than face a hellish nine months. >> i would be surprised if reid would because he will be able to bring resources to bear. i would be surprised if he did. he is very vulnerable. three republican challengers with very, very little name i.d. in nevada, all three of them beating him right now in head to heads. >> steve, what does a democrat do playing defense after last night. they used the word arrogance a lot. they want that to be the spin, not ideology, arrogance. >> right. one of the challenges for an
incumbent is convincing voters they haven't gone washington and understand the problems of arch families. >> they know the baseball players on the local teams. >> exactly. they understand people who are paying for their groceries are having a hard time and getting squeezed are having a hard time. >> should they drive a truck and drive around in a barn coat? >> i think it is wishful thinking on todd's part. you have three republicans in nevada. >> nevada. pronounce it right. >> by the time the republican primary is over they will cut each other to ribbons and harry reid will look different because he will van open field to explain what he has been doing and how he has been helping them. that has gotten lost because health care reform dominated the conference. these guys get it. >> what is easier for you guys on the republican side, maybe you won't give this away but maybe you will. if the democrats keep fighting
for a real health care bill, through the house accepting the senate bill and doing reconciliation or chop it to pieces. what is the senatorer move for the other side? the harder target to hit. >> i hope with all due respect to governor dean, i hope they do exactly what howard dean said on the show tonight. >> he's my guy. let's stop. >> what happens in november will be largely determined by what lesson the democrats learn. if you listen to governor dean, nancy pelosi, the lesson they are taking from this is we didn't go to the left enough as if their problem in massachusetts was they couldn't motivate the democratic base. >> that was a problem. >> the problem was independents basically, not basically, independents completely turned their bags on the democratic party. >> that was another problem. >> if a state like massachusetts if you turn out your entire democratic base you can negate the fact that the independents have abandoned you, but in real
swing states if independents do in the rocky mountain states what they did last night in massachusetts it is going to be a very, very ugly november. >> there is no question after watching new jersey and virginia where independents went for republicans by 30 points and massachusetts where the latest polling had martha coakley losing independents by 40 points. there is a wakeup call for democrats right now. they understand that. >> how do you play defense? >> you have to play defense but you have to play offense. howard dean is right about this. there was not enthusiasm for martha coakley among the democratic regulars in massachusetts. >> she was very progressive. >> she was progressive -- >> she is what howard dean and you guys want. >> for some reason she didn't connect with folks. by the time president obama got there, he went in with a 60% approval rating, by the time he got there he couldn't motivate the base. you cannot be a democrat and win elections if you are disconnected from the base or if
you get beat by independents by 40 points. >> the the democrats saw the tsunami coming, this guy was attractive and doing well in the polls why didn't they come out and vote and save their democratic candidate? the president asked them to do it. bill clinton asked them. why didn't they vote? stlich stlichlt. >> there are two ways to vote. this year inside/outside is more powerful. >> why didn't the democrats vote to save their candidate? >> the outsider message was more appealing. >> independents are mad as hell because they don't see any change in washington. one state to look for to see how this plays out is delaware. if there was one lesson from massachusetts this whole idea this was ted kennedy's seat in delaware, this is the biden seat.
mike castle very, very strong candidate. for beau biden, if his rational is this is my seat. >> why would he say that sniflt. >> that is how democrats are talking. >> he just got back from serving his country. one thing the bidens aren't is arrogant. >> thank you steve mcmahon. >> he is not going to be rubber stamped. >> who is to blamed for the defeat in massachusetts? we get to the blame game which is weirdly fun in this business. this is "hardball" only on msnbc.
the oil crisis is over. i don't think so. our economy is bleeding billions for foreign oil... importing nearly 70% - much of it from countries that don't like us. that's billions we should use to create american jobs. we have plenty of american natural gas, to power our trucks and bus fleets. it's cheaper, cleaner, abundant, and it's ours. we've had our wake up call. it's time to act.
i think there are a lot of people that bear responsibility for some aspect of what happened last night. >> well, as john kennedy once said victory has 100 fathers, defeat is an orphan which i think is so true. white house press secretary bob gibbs said there is a lot of plame to go around. terry o'neil is the president of national organization of women, sam bennett president of women's campaign forum. a lot of people thought there were going to be a lot more women in the united states senate. i thought this was going to be one of them. >> me, too. i'm glad she won and i'm sorry
she lost. what happened this election was a referendum on politics as usual, on business as usual inside the beltway. i think it is a referendum on change that has not happened. >> so it is about washington not massachusetts? >> absolutely. >> what is your thinking, sam? >> hey, we need a hell of a lot more women. >> the senate is the classic opportunity. >> classic opportunity. two things in my mind happened here, number one, double standard. her opponent nude male centerfold gets a pass. martha coakley called ice queen. >> if she has done the center fold. >> she would not be in the race. >> what is that about? >> it is about a double standard. >> this is man bites dog, a male center fold. do you have numbers on the women response?
i thought -- i said before i went on, hillary won massachusetts in the primary. most voters are women. why didn't a woman candidate win? >> it doesn't mean a woman is going to vote for a woman just because she is a woman. that is not what happens here. >> even when the there is a backlog? >> yes. the other thing that happened is independent expenditure. i don't care how well your race is run, if a million bucks comes down on your head in the final couple of weeks when you don't have the bandwidth to respond you are in trouble. >> would you run martha coakley in two years. >> without any hesitation? >> how about you? >> absolutely. >> you would have a rematch? >> absolutely. >> love it. >> how would you run the campaign differently? i'm trying to get you to say something here. >> raise more money. any democrat going after her, look in the mirror where were
you when shefirst. where were you? a couple weeks ago she was 30 points ahead in the poll. >> during christmas she took a couple weeks off and was that they said it best last night. the primary is not the general. you can't confuse the two. but the bottom line is, she wasn't a perfect candidate. but guess what? she was a terrific candidate, eminently qualified. >> you shouldn't need a perfect candidate in massachusetts if you're a democrat. >> right. >> you came in there with an edge, right? >> not anymore. you've got more independence and that's what showed in this election. people are choosing not to trust
the democrats. they ran a campaign of change in 2 oh 008. that's what they voted for and that's not what they are getting. >> are you nonpartisan? >> i'm nonpartisan. >> kay bailey hutchinson, absolutely not, she's opposed to women rights and we would never support her. but nonpartisan. >> if i can find a republican who would stand up to the republican -- >> kay bailey hutchinson is pro choice, isn't she? >> you heard it here. sam, tori -- >> when we return, president obama's first year ended badly, i guess, as a verdict. what's in store for this year. for more "hardball" tonight, only on msnbc. applying lip balm over...
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a leader president obama simply has not led. he let them run this health care agenda. he turned it over to the senate finance he gave them rope to hang him and that's what they did. that's why we're still talking about this a year after his inauguration. >> so he's been ineffective? >> on this. >> an effective progressive? >> oh, please, don't set me off today. i know you're feisty and i'm really feisty. this is garbage that he bowed to his left. this is a corporate bill with corporate giveaways that the left is pissed about. one more thing, howard dean was trying to say -- i don't agree with him on everything. martha coakley lost the
progressives because no one cares that she's for the public option. that is dead and gone because the president did not fight for it. i find it problematic that she didn't ai also think that she was saddled with the fact that this bill, as written, is a done deal. the other thing that is important in massachusetts, chris s. that the president did cut a deal with bell nelson. i heard this from my progressive friends. we have great health care here.
we made the extra effort and paid the extra money to do something progressive. and then you're going to sell out to ben nelson in nebraska? so there's a progressive narrative here. >> okay. chris, you might hear a different message. >> chris, i don't know if we knew what it ended up doing until the democratic-held seat, we look back after '94 and say, obviously ron lewis was a harborer of things to come. the one thing that i think is very worry some f. you're a democrat, about november, it's not certain that this is going to happen but independence. independence in virginia moved away from the democratic two
parties and brown one overwhelmingly over the independents. they've gotten by by saying, look, the president is still popular with the independence. it's a huge problem if it continues. and i think joan is right. if it continues, i don't think we can say, yes, today, this means that democrats are going to lose the house or lose nine and ten seats in the senate. we're not there yet. but it's not a good sign if you're a democratic. >> i really think she needed to be much more people-centric and she really needed to hear. here's the thing, chris.
obama -- i was listening to david axelrod ed is coming up with "the ed show." >> good evening, american, and welcome to "the ed show" from new york. i've been sick to my stop back because of the results last night. the unthinkable happened in massachusetts, at least from my perspective. republican scott brown, dick cheney junior, won ted kennedy's seat. surprised a lot of folks. and today harry reid put the icing on the cakes for the republicans and announced, hey, what do you say we just stop everything on health care until scott shows up. what is going on here? they are going to let him be the 41st obstruction nift. they are not going to do anything until scottie brown shows up. it's amazing to me that this is
happening. this morning, on the "today" show, brown was asked why he thought he won. listen to what he said. the first thing out of this guy's class is terror. are we not safe? scott brown won by using the dick cheney strategy of fearmongering. and it worked because people respect -- people respect a very strong message and a strong position. and i think right now when you look at the democrats, do you really see strength? senate majority read harry reid is getting beat up big time in the